Adopting Confucianism as the Lavalon Philosophy

[neem]

Eh, does it have to be official?

[admin]

state-sponsored philosophies are almost, if not more, dangerous than state religions. They force a system of thinking on citizens... thats sometimes worse then being forced to beleive in a religion. and even if thise state philosophy is not "forced" on people, it will end up pressuring people if government officials adopt it and take it to heart and implement it.

[admin]

However... if such a thing is wanted by many Lavalonians... my vote is for Taoism

[Jonathan Christophé]

Ehem. How 'bout no.

[Xon]

State-sponsored sounds a bit, shall we say, "totalitarian". For that reason I would not want Confucianism or any other philosophical system to be state-sponsored by the Lavalonian government.

However the Cultural Branch can ascribe to Confucianism (or whatever is chosen) the status of having "cultural values". Every society has values, and Lavalon should be no different. The Confucian judicial system in Neil Stephenson's coastal mainland China of The Diamond Age is a perfect example.

I hope Jon was saying "how bout no" to Taoism, because Taoism is the opposite of confucianism. It's basically a traditional spirits and ritual religion, which is not what we want or need.

When I said that government officials should be well-versed in Confucianism, I was about to also write that the way to make this possible would be to have classes of philosophy in the University of Lavalon. Then dad told me to get off the computer, so I had to click "Post" just then.

[neem]

You don't need to proclaim everything as having "cultural value." If you want to have classes or something, go ahead, but stop trying to make us label what has value and what doesn't

[Z]

I am more of a Machivliest. (ALL THE PHILOSPHY I NEED!)

Make the Prince required reading!

[timjr]

Z, if machiavelism can bring down Dan Rather, then maybe it could make us all millionaires!

Eh, does it have to be official?

Neem, I realize from your comments that you do not want any part of this philosophy (and probably other elements of Lavalonian culture as well) being "official". No one is forced to do anything in regards to Lavalonian culture, here in Lavalon; that would be oppressive. However we can "promote" and "institute" elements of culture. Our national symbols, our colors, our motto, why not our values too ?

You don't need to proclaim everything as having "cultural value." If you want to have classes or something, go ahead, but stop trying to make us label what has value and what doesn't

I have been using the word "value" in the sense of a moral-philosophical belief, not in the sense of a measure of worth.

The apathy expressed currently by several of our high-ranking citizens towards encouraging (at the very least) a Lavalonian culture and identity (based on historical facts and context) is, to me, disturbing.

Antica's got people working on an official calendar and to a lesser degree a state orthodox religion, Natopia has lindstromism, Babkha has its Assyrianism. Toaka, Navland, and others have their own cultures, why should we be afraid to start adding (officially) to Lavalon's.

Lavalon would be a much more interesting place if we did, I think.

[neem]

Um... who's with me when I say that we don't need philosophy right now?

[timjr]

who's with me when I say that we don't need philosophy right now

You might want to delete your above post, because it simply confirms my argument about cultural apathy among high-ranking citizens.

Nobody's looking...

[admin]

The apathy expressed currently by several of our high-ranking citizens towards encouraging (at the very least) a Lavalonian culture and identity (based on historical facts and context) is, to me, disturbing.

I believe this comment was directed at me, among others. The problem I have about all of these cultural values that are being suggested is that they are just other people's ideas. IF we want to have something of "culturally codified," it needs to be uniquely Lavalonian. *cough* Lavalism *cough*

I hope Jon was saying "how bout no" to Taoism, because Taoism is the opposite of confucianism. It's basically a traditional spirits and ritual religion, which is not what we want or need.

Taoism is the philosophy that everyone's personal Tao (Dao), or Path, is correct. No one is wrong. Do what you want basically. It's not a religion. I agree that it is the worst to base a government off of and that's why I suggested it with a *wink.*

[Bartholomew Henzelli]

I find this entire thing horribly and personally offensive Xon.

When we tried to create Lavalism, something uniquely Lavalon, something that wasn't a REAL religion, but had elements of religion and elements of philosophy, you were so against it that you refused to talk about it anymore.

Now you're trucking out one of the most oppressive state religions ever enforced in the history of the world. And Confucianism IS a religion. Most Eastern "religions" are technically philosophies, as is my personal Buddhism, but they are all deeply spiritual and are thus religions. They all recognize a higher power, whether it is an external or internal power, it's still a higher power.

Confucianism oppressed the Chinese people for almost 600 years. Anything that went against the Court Eunuchs was eventually destroyed. I don't know if anyone knows of Zhung He, but he is supposed to have discovered North America in 1487, FIVE years before Columbus.
I would get into the argument, but I'm still on my tirade against Confucianism as Lavalon's "official" philosophy. But this adds to my point.
In 1510 (give or take a few years) the Emperor who commissioned Zhung He died, and most of Zhung's records were burned by the Confucian Court Eunuchs, because the existence of another continent went against the common ideology of China's day. And following that purge of non-Confucian cartography, China isolated itself for almost four hundred years.

And your "not naming names" of Lavalon's political heirarchy whom you accuse of being apathetic towards Lavalon's culture is just plain rude. We all know who you're talking about, and your accusations fall on most of us in the upper echelons of power.
Confucianism in Lavalon should not be "official" because of our Human Rights bill. Confucianism should not be "official" in the CPC because then all culture would reflect Confucianism and would have a trickle down effect similar to Confucianism being "official" throughout Lavalon.

You might want to delete your above post, because it simply confirms my argument about cultural apathy among high-ranking citizens.

Just because she disagrees with you does not make her culturally-apathetic.
I suggest you delete YOUR heinously offensive and illogical post. I mean, "nobody's looking..."

[timjr]

In 1510 (give or take a few years) the Emperor who commissioned Zhung He died, and most of Zhung's records were burned by the Confucian Court Eunuchs, because the existence of another continent went against the common ideology of China's day. And following that purge of non-Confucian cartography, China isolated itself for almost four hundred years.

I did not know this, thanks for telling me. Of course the eunuchs then were living many centuries after Confucius, after Confucianism became less of a philosophy and more of a Confucius-personality-cult (hence the name, Confucianism).

Nate, I respect your recommendation that our philosophy be uniquely Lavalonian. This Lavalism you refer to interests me. Is it anything like Lavalism? Of course it is, you're just using the incorrect incorrect spelling. I prefer "Lavalism"

I CAN go along with anyone who says Lavalonism should be our national philosophy, and who also says that Lavalonism should be strictly philosophical, logical, and non-religious.

I'm even willing to give up my emphasis on Confucianism. All I really want here is a philosophical system to add to our culture. Anyone else?

[admin]

It is spelled Lavalism and you know that it is. We alredy went through the whole debate, Henzelli founded/thought it and he gets to name it.

I dont have a problem officializing Lavalism at all.

[neem]

xon said:

Neem, I realize from your comments that you do not want any part of this philosophy (and probably other elements of Lavalonian culture as well) being "official". No one is forced to do anything in regards to Lavalonian culture, here in Lavalon; that would be oppressive. However we can "promote" and "institute" elements of culture. Our national symbols, our colors, our motto, why not our values too ?



I have been using the word "value" in the sense of a moral-philosophical belief, not in the sense of a measure of worth.

The apathy expressed currently by several of our high-ranking citizens towards encouraging (at the very least) a Lavalonian culture and identity (based on historical facts and context) is, to me, disturbing.

Yeah... Does that mean I'm high-ranking? Well, if that's so, then aren't we all high-ranking? This has nothing to do with anything, by the way.

All I'm saying is that it's kinda unnecessary to label what's culture and what isn't. Making things like what philosophy we use official just bothers me.

xon said:

You might want to delete your above post, because it simply confirms my argument about cultural apathy among high-ranking citizens.

Nobody's looking...

It's no fun to delete posts. I don't really care if it confirms your useless argument that I don't care about culture. If you're going to accuse people of things, why don't you just use their names. It has the same effect, it's just slightly less annoying to me.